Episode Transcript
[00:00:04] Speaker A: If you want more time, money, freedom, and have a business that's not reliant on you, then you're in the right place. Each week, Mark Creedon, along with some of the very best business minds in the world, will take you through simple, practical steps you can take to create the business you always wanted. From his own practical experience, Mark will show you how to work less, make more, and get the business you always wanted, the one that you deserve.
Now, here's your host, one of Australia's most sought after business coaches, Mark Creedon.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Welcome to the latest edition of the Mastermind for Business podcast. I'm Mark Creedon, your host, and I'm super excited because in the chair, I've got Tim and Felix from Bo racking. Now, guys, you'll remember Tim and Felix from a few episodes ago where we spoke about their amazing story about how they got into their business and how they grew their business into multi million dollar national business here in Australia. But we want to talk a little bit more about now how they're getting themselves out of the day to day and how they're doing it. So here's the thing. If you are feeling like you're stuck in your business, if you feel like the reason you got into the business in the first place is no longer there for you and you feel like you chained to it, congratulations, you're in the right place. Because today we're going to be talking to these guys about exactly how they achieved what I'm sure you would love to achieve. Let's get underway with that right now.
Good morning, gentlemen. Welcome to the podcast. Good morning, Mark, Tim, great to see you. Talk to me. What's happening in Bo racking? There's so much going on at the moment.
[00:01:56] Speaker C: Yes, there's a lot of stuff going on. We're coming close to Christmas at the moment. We are on Christmas party tour. As you know, we are now operating in four states. We had our Christmas party in Adelaide, Sydney. Now we're in Brisbane and next week we head over to Melbourne.
[00:02:15] Speaker B: So I think that the big question that probably everybody wants to know. So you've had Adelaide party, sorry. Christmas parties in Adelaide and Melbourne.
[00:02:23] Speaker C: Adelaide, Melbourne and Sydney. Sydney, yeah. And Brisbane.
[00:02:28] Speaker B: Right. How's the hangover?
[00:02:29] Speaker D: Good morning, Mark. Felix. Hangover is pretty good.
And we had last weekend off, so we come to Brisbane well rested.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: Time to recover.
[00:02:40] Speaker D: Exactly. You got a plan?
[00:02:42] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Well, you guys certainly do that. Let's talk about last time you joined us in the studio, we spoke about how you guys got into bow racking. In the first place. And the great story about that, guys, if you haven't listened to that, scroll back through find the podcast. Listen that. It's a great story and it's really quite inspirational. Let's talk about where you're at now and what you're looking to do, because I know we've been working on largely extracting you guys from the day to day. I want to talk about what was the process that you went through in order to get you to that point? Or maybe more importantly, why did you want to get out of the day today?
[00:03:18] Speaker C: Okay, awesome. So I think it's now a two year journey. We're working with you, Mark, since two years. Back then, we were still on the tools, we were still doing everything in the business, and there was this idea to slowly transition out of it and replace us with people who can do a better job than us.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
Was that hard? Was it hard to think? Because one of the big things about delegations, one of the things that stops people from delegating effectively, is this myth of omnipotence. Right. Nobody can do it as well as I can.
Was that a fact? Tim just looked at Felix then with this sort of, hey, Felix, he's talking about you 100%.
[00:04:05] Speaker D: Yeah, it definitely was a factor when we first started working with you.
I have it crystal clear in front of me.
I was very scared of letting go exactly for that reason. So it was really in my head, I couldn't think that I can be replaced. But really, the only thing that was missing was the structure around what I was doing. But I also want to add to what Tim just said, the reason to get out of the day today is not so much that we're not interested in it anymore. But before we started working with you, we could only grasp the potential of the company.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: Right.
[00:04:47] Speaker D: But it was impossible to reach new heights just because there's only so much time in any day. And if you're on the tools for 10 hours, you start your day at six in the morning, you drive a scissor from a to b, then you do a nine hour shift on site, and you do the admin around that. There's barely any work to work on the business. There's just not enough time in a day. So really, it was the necessary and very important step for the company to grow.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it's an interesting point, Felix, because I think that one of the advantages of working with any coach, I think there's two things. One, it doesn't necessarily tell you something you don't know, it just gives you the structure for how to achieve what you want to achieve, but it's the opportunity to kind of stand on the shoulders of someone so you can just see that little bit further, which is very difficult when you're in the trenches. So you let go. Tim, what about for you?
Was there a fear of letting go? Was there hesitation?
[00:05:43] Speaker C: There certainly was.
Lucky for me, I'm not a perfectionist. I think I get things done, I initiate things. But I think the perfectionist in this relationship is Felix.
I think for him it was a lot harder. And I need to say it was a journey now. And the thinking nowadays is completely different. I think today it's more about finding the right people who can do those tasks, not, hey, I need to do it good. It's more who can do this task.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Let's talk about trust for a minute, because you guys work really well together, because there's inherent trust between you. So how do you bring somebody else into the business and apply that same level of trust? I mean, it's a bit like handing over your newborn in some ways, isn't it? Or your first born. It's your baby.
[00:06:40] Speaker D: Yeah, I agree with you. I think it all starts with you, though. So you can hardly bring someone in a company and just expect them to execute.
It really starts with the proper training. You got to have a process in place, so you need to set up the person for success.
If you do that, then I guess you can always have bad luck. But I think what we learned over the last two years, if you put enough effort in a person, anyone can really perform.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:15] Speaker D: So if you set them up for success, you'd be surprised what happens on the other side.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: That's a very cool learning, I think. And I think it's something that we often miss in business. It's like, I need this task done or I need this role filled, I'll hire someone to do it and then almost set them up to fail by not giving them the clear pathway, by not giving the proper training, by not putting the time into them and time and money. Really, really giving them the opportunity to step ahead. All right, so we've acknowledged that there's some fear. We've moved past the fear because we've got some structure around it. Second thing is, then we've gone right. Well, we know we need to put time into and effort into people. Where did it go wrong?
Did it go perfectly smoothly and amazingly well, or were there challenges?
[00:08:08] Speaker C: As you know, we had a couple of key hires in the past. Now we hired first an operations manager, construction managers. Now we hired our first probably a year ago, and now we have five of them. So now it goes rapidly. You can see at the start we were pretty green, and we didn't put enough structures around it, right. And you can see that. But now we also evolved and we got better at it, and now we make it easier for our new hires or for the guys we move up into those roles.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: So one of the things that I've seen you do is that now when you bring new people in, because previously you brought somebody new in, even at a more junior level, then you would have to be responsible for bringing them up to speed and getting them on board. But now you've got this next layer of management that does that for you. Has that freed you up or given you a lot more comfort?
[00:09:05] Speaker D: I wouldn't say it has freed me up yet, but it's just a different type of work now.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:10] Speaker D: So I think I always tell my partner, we're going to hire this person, we're going to train it, and everything will change. We'll have all this free time in the world.
But then when you get to that point, you realize this free time you can now put back into the company, and there's always something you can improve. I think it'd be fair to say the company has evolved over the last eight years very significantly, and I wouldn't be surprised if it looks completely different in eight years from now.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: Does that scare you? Is that a good thought?
[00:09:46] Speaker D: I think it is a good thought. I think it's all about evolution. It's about growing new experiences. We learn from the past. As Tim said, we apply now knowledge a lot faster than we did in the first four years. I think the first four years were also necessary to make those experiences and kind of, like, see how not to do it.
[00:10:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:13] Speaker D: And this helps us now to. Okay, look, we can see this from ourselves. So now I'm having these conversations with our construction managers and say, I can say, look, I did exactly the same thing, and it took me four years to learn that I have to change. So you can either live in pain for four years and then learn the lesson, or trust me that I'm just here to help you and make your life easier. And that's actually what's giving me a lot of joy at the moment. Working with the people and seeing them grow a lot faster than I grew.
[00:10:43] Speaker B: I think that's a great leadership trait, guys.
I think that one of the great leadership traits is to be able to say to people, do you know what? I've made lots of mistakes in my time. So I can sit back and watch you make the same mistakes, and you can learn the same way I did, or you can actually learn the way I have from those mistakes. You don't make them. And so you kind of fast track the next generation's progress, don't you?
[00:11:06] Speaker C: Yeah, 100%. And you see the difference. We actually had a catch up with one of our construction managers yesterday, Jose. And he moved up pretty quick, and we had to give him a compliment because he's someone, he's actually listening. And as soon people listen, it's just so much fun to work with him. So he would always bring his notepad to write down exactly what you want to teach.
And it's just so fulfilling to see him now moving forward. And then he gives us his lessons of the supervisors who working under him, and he's actually repeating. It's like, I love working with him. He's moving because he's listening.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah, Tim, it's interesting that you say that it's great because he's listening, but the truth is that people will only listen if you give them the opportunity to do so or if you speak to them in a way that enables them to listen. What you guys have done is you're now speaking in a way that makes people want to listen.
And I think that makes all the difference.
Before we started recording, and I said to you, you said, what are we.
[00:12:14] Speaker D: Going to talk about?
[00:12:14] Speaker B: And it was right. I want to talk about how you guys have got out of the trenches and you both sort of rolled your eyes and went, yeah, well, about that. So you're back in the trenches a little bit.
[00:12:26] Speaker C: That's maybe one for yes.
[00:12:29] Speaker D: Yeah, we're back in the trenches, but that has a reason. So maybe we talked about it last time we were here. We grew the company in Melbourne first. So the company exists since eight years, and the company here in Brisbane in New South Wales, they exist since nine months. In Adelaide. We're roughly here. So we did remove ourselves more of the day to day in Melbourne, but we now realize, okay, there's still a bit of work interstate because the company is a lot younger.
But what we can see is we already interstadia in Brisbane and New South Wales, we are pretty much in year five of Melbourne within the first year.
[00:13:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:13] Speaker D: And that's why I really don't mind to be back in the trenches, because we're fast tracking the whole journey and we're applying all the things we learned over the last eight years and it's just amazing to see.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: So essentially what you're doing in the Interstate offices now is what you had to do in Melbourne, but in a much more condensed. So you're back in the trenches. But there's an insight to that 100%.
[00:13:39] Speaker D: And it's a different trench this time. So in Melbourne, obviously at the start, we were literally on the tools physically, like drilling, vacuuming, hammering.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: Do you miss that?
[00:13:51] Speaker D: Yes and no.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: That's not the answer I was expecting.
[00:13:55] Speaker D: I'm very hands on. So yeah, I tell you, it's really rewarding to work a full day, get sweaty with the boys.
It is rewarding, but then also it's not time well spent in the greater scheme of things. It is nice to work with the guys and we have an amazing team. I like spending time with them, but if I do 8 hours hands on, or I do 8 hours working on processes and structures, my time is spent a lot better if I work on the processes and structures. So now in interstate, we are not working on the tools, so we're not in this trench, but we are training the construction managers and supervisors to apply the lessons we learn.
[00:14:39] Speaker B: Right, okay, Tim, do you miss the time in the trenches at all?
[00:14:44] Speaker C: It was a great time and we installed a lot of pallet racks, but it's good that we moved on. And like Felix said, nowadays there are a lot more important things we can do to push the company forward.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: So we spoke just before about the sort of the different roles between you guys and the different personalities. And I said, I think to you from when I first met you, you're very much a yin and yang. And it works very much. Let's talk about how you've broken the roles up as you've grown the know. Tim, what's been your focus?
[00:15:19] Speaker C: Ok. I think for me, I'm probably more the ideas guy, and I have a great idea. I initiate and then usually Felix takes the idea and implements it.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Right. So, good starter, not so good a finisher.
[00:15:36] Speaker C: No. Sometimes there were projects I start and I want to finish, but I think now Felix said to me, hey, let me take over there, because I can implement it better than you. And he can. He's an incredible.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And Felix, that works for you, obviously.
[00:15:57] Speaker D: Yeah, I think we're an amazing team. So I'm very fortunate to work alongside Tim. I think in my life is one of the most inspirational people I know. And it's a blessing to build this company with him together. I'm really proud and that we're still friends and doing the business and all this.
I think every young boy friends, they dream about stuff like this, but that it actually happened is pretty cool.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. I was actually just thinking the other day, there was a mate I had at school, and I used to always. We used to dream that we'd one day have this big company that we ran together. And when we were in primary school, and I look back on it was probably more my dream than his, but I had this thing, and I remember we used to draw logos and things like that of what our company would look like. And I haven't seen him for 50 years. So I think you guys are incredibly fortunate. Let's talk about the next eight years, because, Felix, you said that the company is going to look very different.
What's next? Where do you see it going?
Okay, back to the ideas man.
[00:17:03] Speaker C: So, you know, we started 2015 with just the two of us. Now fast forward 2023, we have over 150 people in the company, and all the structures and everything evolved. Maybe if we can talk a little bit about our rebrand, which is coming up.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Fantastic. Let's talk about the rebrand.
[00:17:23] Speaker C: Awesome. So you can imagine from 2015 to 2023, the company evolved a lot. The people evolved, the structures evolved, and now we are in the middle of a rebrand, and, yeah, our appearance will change a little bit.
[00:17:41] Speaker B: Why now, Tim?
[00:17:43] Speaker C: So, as you know, a year ago, we became a national company, and we're going.
So I don't know if I can reveal it, where we are going to, but it was bow racking, warehouse and safety installations. Now we're going to bow rack and we simplify the whole thing.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: Right?
[00:18:03] Speaker C: It should be a more national appearance.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:18:08] Speaker C: And we actually want to build a cool brand, a recognizable brand.
[00:18:15] Speaker B: I really like the idea, and I don't want you to reveal any of your trade secrets about what you're doing next. But, I mean, I think there's a lot of opportunity for racking in Venoatu. I think you'd be very happy there, lying on a beach. Not a bad idea, is it, really, when you think about it. Bo rack Venoatu sounds good. Yeah, exactly. Felix, where do you see the business in the next eight years?
[00:18:36] Speaker D: Yeah, so we definitely want to step it up. I think we are only grasping on the bottom end of the storage industry.
We are a pure installer, so we're not talking about selling any material. We really want to focus on the installation, because I think we've shown that we're good at it. But we also have still a lot to learn, and I think there's a lot of exciting stuff in the industry. Everything goes into automation.
The job is going to be more interesting, bigger, higher. And I think that's what we want to tackle here.
[00:19:12] Speaker B: You're getting pretty excited for a non ideas guy there, which is nice to see.
[00:19:16] Speaker D: Well, if you work eight years next to this guy. That's right.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: Osmosis.
[00:19:20] Speaker D: Something is rubbing off.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: Exactly.
You both said know there's great growth plans for the next eight years. I want to tap into. And something. Tim, we were talking about off air before about psychology.
How do you stay motivated?
What gets you to want to keep going? Because if we stop now, if you just kept the business as it was, now, let's be honest, it's a pretty damn good business, and you guys are doing pretty well out of it. And life is pretty good. And life, you could kind of just sit here and go, that's okay. Where does the motivation come to go? No, there's another eight years of growth yet.
[00:20:01] Speaker C: Very good question. I think we are both very driven people, and I don't know how you feel about it, but if the company doesn't grow, it feels like you're stuck or it's not moving forward. I don't know if it's always a good thing, but I certainly enjoy new things, new ideas, new avenues we could enter into. So that's what drives me.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:28] Speaker D: Felix, if I can add to that, when we first started the company, it was all about Tim and me.
It was a job for us. It was to get by. We didn't really have an idea about how you create a company. But now it's not about Tim and me anymore. It's fair to say we live pretty comfortable out of this.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:49] Speaker D: As you said, if we would just stop now with the growing, we could probably just move in a nice house, let the guys do what they do. Good, and that's it. But I think now we're at this stage where we are driven by the growth of other people, more so than our own personal growth. So our biggest goal is now create as much opportunity for everyone who is interested to work with us. So I want to see the people we put in positions. I want them to grow and reach new heights. I want them to be successful. It's not about my name anymore. It's about Borac. And the people work for us. They work for Borac. So we want to make their life better.
[00:21:33] Speaker B: It's a really interesting point. I was having a conversation with somebody the other day in mastermind, who is at the moment changing over from kind of being just a family company to being something much bigger than that. And they were just going through that time of, why am I doing this?
And he said to me, mark, why am I doing this? I can give you 85 reasons. 85? Why 85? Because that's how many employees you have. So I can give you at least 85 reasons as to why you're doing this. And it is about bringing up, bringing people up, bringing people along for the journey.
[00:22:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree there, Mark.
It's pretty cool to see that nowadays, actually, our guys take on the mission. I remember probably five years ago, it was always Felix and me. It felt like we were pulling and pulling and pulling, and now we have some great people in the right seats, the right incentives, and now it feels like they really want it and they are pushing it forward. So it's great.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: I've had this conversation with a couple of people in the last two days, really, about how at some stage, if you really want to scale your business to the next level and get freedom for you, you have to stop, and as you just said, stop dragging people along and actually get behind and start pushing them instead. So there's the difference between leadership from the front and leadership from behind. So it's still leading by example, but I think there's this massive switch in being able to go, I'm not going to drag people along anymore. What I'm going to do is get behind them and push them up.
That's really what you're saying.
[00:23:16] Speaker D: And that's what's worked for you guys 100%. I mean, Tim said before, we had the chat with Jose yesterday, and he's just the perfect example of us not pushing anymore or pulling or any kind of this. He uses us as a resource. Yes, he's very attentive to what we say, but now he has the big ideas, he has the dreams for Brisbane, and we have similar guys in Sydney, in Adelaide, in Melbourne. And it's cool to see then because we're only two guys and what we think the company could be looks maybe completely different than what other people think the company could be. And now that we tapped into those brains, there's actually a lot more installed for us.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:03] Speaker C: Now that's where the challenge comes in.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: Right, talk to me about that.
[00:24:06] Speaker C: So now we need to take ourselves back, because there are situations where we work with connect. We see a lot of messages online, and there are situations where you want to chime in, you better stay out and just have a conversation with the person you want to speak to and actually let the guys do their thing, and it'll work out. They learn along the way, and actually good things come out of it if you take yourself a little bit.
[00:24:38] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting, Tim, because I think that one of the mistakes that people can make is that they believe that they are the fountain of all knowledge, and so all good ideas. And even if they have people around them who have good ideas, they still have to filter that idea through the business owner. And so what happens is you become your own roadblock. And the reality is, let's just put things like safety issues aside for a minute, because there's obviously some serious safety issues for you guys. But if you're putting that aside for a minute, the truth is, if one of your leaders makes a decision that's not quite right, no one's going to die. So you can fix it. Right. It's something that can be repaired. It. How hard is that conclusion to come to?
[00:25:32] Speaker C: You want to go?
[00:25:33] Speaker B: It was harder for me, but.
[00:25:35] Speaker D: Well, I just want to say, well, it took nearly eight years.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: Pretty hard. Fair answer. It's a fair answer.
[00:25:42] Speaker D: No, I think it goes back to what we discussed at the start. It's about trust. I mean, the people we hired and we put in those positions, we didn't just make that up.
Most of them, nearly all of them started on the bottom, the same like Tim. And we did in the trenches on the tools, and we moved them through the ranks because of not how we like him or how we feel about the person, but what value they provided to the company. So they're there for a reason now. It makes it easier.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Felix, I want to stay with that just for two minutes. I had a conversation with a mastermind member yesterday, and they were saying, the current generation, they don't want to work through the ranks. They want to go from being on the ground to being a manager in three months. Are you seeing that in your business?
[00:26:39] Speaker D: We literally had that conversation on the way to you today. We said, there is people who come to you and ask you for more money out of the blue, and there's people who come to you and just keep providing value till it gets so hard to not pay the person more. And it would be a lie if I would say everyone is the second case. But I do feel like we have a lot of the second case, which is obviously a blessing for us.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it is a blessing, but it's not an accident. So it's happened because of the culture that you've created and also the way you've recruited. So when you recruit, how important is if you were to balance it out between skill set and attitude?
50 50. 80. 2090.
[00:27:27] Speaker D: 9% attitude and 1% skill. Yeah. I believe what we do is not rocket science.
I'm pretty sure we can train anyone on pallet wrecking.
I don't have a master's or anything in management all this, but I feel we learned a lot of lessons over the last eight years. So I can also, I'm pretty confident I can train someone to be a good leader. So really all we need is attitude.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: That's an amazing point.
[00:27:57] Speaker C: Only teach him if he listens. So there comes the attitude.
[00:28:01] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. And it's interesting because I agree with you, with you both. I think it's 99% attitude and 1% skill set. You can teach skills. You can't teach people attitude. You can't teach people commitment and loyalty and compassion and empathy and passion and all of those things that really make up a company.
Eight years.
[00:28:26] Speaker C: Eight years.
[00:28:27] Speaker B: I'll have to get you back in another eight years and see how it's going.
[00:28:32] Speaker D: Well, you're not going to get rid of us.
[00:28:33] Speaker B: Guys, it's always a pleasure to chat to you. Thank you for your time this morning because I know you've got a huge day on of was it lying by.
[00:28:39] Speaker D: The pool, Felix jumping in the pool.
[00:28:42] Speaker B: Jumping in the pool is the most energetic thing Felix has got to do today. Guys. These are the sort of things that we help our clients within our mastermind program all the time. Here's what I'd love you to do. If you've got some value out of today's podcast, please share the podcast. Like it, subscribe, comment on it, jump onto our socials, and let us know if there's anything you'd like to hear more about. If you'd like to hear more from Tim and Felix about Bo rack, then I know we'll get the boys back. Tim, thank you. Always good to see you.
[00:29:08] Speaker C: Thank you, Mark.
[00:29:08] Speaker B: Felix, thank you, mate. Always good to see you as well. It's always a pleasure.
[00:29:12] Speaker D: Thank you, Mark.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: All right, guys, that's it. That's a wrap. We'll see you in the next episode of the Mastermind for Business podcast.
[00:29:23] Speaker A: Thanks for joining us on the mastermind for business podcast. If you're ready to have a business that you're not a slave to, check out or have a chat with Mark and the team at all the w's, see what's possible today.
